The Doppelgänger Radio Special

Produced by Bruce Brown

Bruce Brown: Doppelganger, a supposed ghostly double or counterpart of a living person. Also called Double Walker.
Terry Taylor: If you were walking down the street and you looked across the street and you saw your exact image, another person that looked exactly like you, sort of like twins only you know you don't have a twin uh that would be your Doppelganger, or double.
Stel Pontikes: Double images have been a popular theme in literature throughout the ages. From Russia's Dostoevsky to England's George McDonald even the apostle Paul, doubles abound in all their writings. Doubles, masks and things that are not what they seem are all part of the theme of the new Daniel Amos album, Doppelganger.
Bruce Brown: This is Bruce Brown along with Stel Pontikes, for the next hour Terry Taylor primary songwriter and vocalist for Daniel Amos will be our guest as we explore the The Alarma Chronicles Volume II, Doppelganger.

Stel Pontikes: To set the tone for our special Terry explains the spiritual significance for the albums concept.
Terry Taylor: Spiritually speaking we get into the idea of warfare between flesh and spirit. Paul's dilemma of wanting to do the right thing and yet not being able to. And the idea of being seated in heavenly places and that being a reality at this very moment for those of us who call Jesus our Lord but at the same time being here upon this earthly plane and in a sense being representatives of that heavenly position and how we misrepresent that position or represent it.
Stel Pontikes: Many of the songs on Doppelganger make their point with unorthodox lyrics such as those of 'Mall All Over The World' which promotes brotherhood through better shopping centers?
Terry Taylor: If we could just have a mall all around the world then we could make people more, sort of more American. And in being more American they can be more Christian. That if everyone was serving Christ, then everyone would be living as well as we do in Southern California. The fact is that we are in some sense untouched by the reality of suffering. We don't know what that is and it's a call to find out.

Mall all over the world, Mall all over the world
Mall all over the world, Mall all over the world
Moving into the age of leisure
Where East meets West in a maze of pleasure...

Stel Pontikes: One of the most sensational media issues in recent years has been women's liberation. 'Real Girls' written by Terry with Jerry Chamberlain confronts this topic head on.
Terry Taylor: I think it's a Christian assessment of the whole idea of women's liberation. What really that liberation consists of, what true liberation is. A song that first scared me, I thought maybe we were going to step on some toes or cause some controversy or whatever. And I am sure we will, but I think it's good at least to get Christians thinking about it. And to start thinking about these issues because we need to take a stand somewhere we need to know what we believe about that particular issue. Yes we agree that women have sort of been hung in the meat market for a long time and displayed and put on television shows and been in many, many was subverted by men and now we are calling for that liberation, but we are calling for that Godliness, the woman of virtue, the woman who knows her position in Christ. And man's heart being changed again also by God so that his view of what a woman is changed as well.

Girls! With cars, Girls! With cameras
Girls! On game shows, Girls! Behind glass
Who are the real girls? what's happened to virtue?

Stel Pontikes: 'New Car!' takes a look at the so called prosperity doctrine, and it's practitioners filtered through the wit of Terry Taylor.
Terry Taylor: This prosperity doctrine, I have some problems with it and when I watch a television program or read a book that tells me that X amount of children are starving and we're over here playing upper white middle class spiritual games that allow us to rationalize our greediness or whatever it may be. Then I do have problems with the whole prosperity thing, and also this song is not essentially addressing this issue, it also addresses the issue, as does a lot of Doppelganger, the idea of the gods of our lives.

Well, I know what I want, I know what I need
I know what I want, I know what I need
I want a miracle! I know what I need
I know what I want, I know what I need
gimme' a... A new car!

Bruce Brown: Doppelganger is the first release of the band's own label Alarma! Records and Tapes. The initials or the label spell ART, a subject which not coincidentally is a favorite of Terry Taylor. When questioned about the unique cover art of Doppelganger Terry's response was;
Terry Taylor: It's really difficult to get into the significance, you know all the little subtleties of the cover art. Because then you start trying to analyze every detail it sort of reduces in some way, then it's not art, then it just sort of reduces it. It's fairly impressionistic, and there is an overall theme that the cover art is touching upon. Like I shared about Alarma! last time, there are things that you realize or understand after the fact. You know there were things I saw myself on Alarma! that took on significance after the artwork had been done or the photos had been taken. God seems to do that in art and in those subtle areas.
Stel Pontikes: The current lineup of Daniel Amos features Terry Taylor, Jerry Chamberlain, Tim Chandler and Ed McTaggert. When you pick up the cover of Doppelganger you'll find that their picture is not on it.
Terry Taylor: We didn't feel it was that necessary, and basically that people know who Daniel Amos is and are aware of the personnel that are in the band. So we didn't think that it was essential to the album itself. There were a lot of things that we wanted to do with photography concerning the theme of the album and the group wasn't an essential part of that plan.
Bruce Brown: The cover of Doppelganger is arguably one of the finest marriages of art to a musical theme ever conceived by a Christian band. Featuring black and white photos of mannequins, masks, windows and shades. The cover was conceived by Terry Taylor with art direction by group manager Phillip Mangano. The highly creative graphics and photography were produced by Darrell Bazzy.
Terry Taylor: A lot of work went into the cover, a lot of discussion, a lot of discussions on the phone, a lot of photos being sent back and forth and ideas sent back and forth until we were all satisfied that the end result was exactly what we wanted it to be.
Stel Pontikes: It's not often easy to apologize to someone that we've wronged and if we're involved in ministry that position of responsibility often makes humbling oneself that much more difficult as related in the song 'Do Big Boys Cry?'.
Terry Taylor: The idea being expressed is that none of us gets to a position in our life or our ministry that we are beyond repentance, apology to those we've hurt, to say to another person that perhaps is just a layman or whatever, to those of us who are in the ministry that we were wrong to say that or we were wrong to act that way. Not just making that part of our sermon but part of our life, part of our action part of the way we deal with people. And those who are in a position of responsibility are first of all servants and that we are never to think of ourselves higher than another. But in fact more lowly, and in that respect we are not beyond making mistakes. And realizing we are human and that we owe those that we call brothers and sisters this transparency.

Do big boys cry? Do they come down?
From their place on high to the dirty ground
What do I do? I am a big boy too

Bruce Brown: There is a great deal of what could delicately be called unusual programming on television today. This sometimes extends into the realm of Religious television, where Terry Taylor discovered the tune 'I Didn't Build It For Me.'
Terry Taylor: You know it's strange I was watching a Religious television program one day and I actually heard these words or it was something like them, the way it went was it was a certain Religious television show host that said 'You know people say we have this great facility' and he says 'and we have tennis courts' and he says 'People say you're probably down there getting a lot of tennis in and I tell them no I didn't build this for me, it's for you, it's for you.' I can't judge that man's heart, God knows that heart and he knows my heart and he knows my motivation for doing what I do. I came up with the song that talks about Religious hot air some of the things we get caught up in.

You think I built this for me?
You think I built this for me?
This isn't mine, it's yours, it's really for you

Stel Pontikes: The center piece of Doppelganger is 'The Double' which closes out side one.
Terry Taylor: As Alarma!, the song 'Alarma' sort of made the overall statement, so does 'The Double' for Doppelganger. Again the two images one seated in the heavenly places and the one being a representative of that heavenly reality. And how we either fulfill that role or we fall short and sort of misrepresent who we are and who Christ is. Reflecting the complexity of the human being it's not just black and white here. It's not so cut and dry, it's not so much it separates the pagan from the person who knows Christ, there's only one thing that separates us and that's God's grace in Christ and that he has saved us and that we acknowledge who he is and what he has done for us and that we are growing in Spiritual dimension hopefully on a daily basis. That doesn't mean that we have arrived, we still experience doubt and fear and frustration and sorrow and all of these things. We are being conformed on a daily sense and this is the separation between one that does not know God and one who does.

My doubles sitting in another world
My doubles laughing in the heavenly places

Stel Pontikes: Welcome back to the Daniel Amos Doppelganger radio special, I'm Stel Pontikes and along with me is Bruce Brown and our guest is Terry Taylor.
Bruce Brown: Side two of Doppelganger begins with 'Distance And Direction' a song which reinforces the double imagery contained throughout the album.

Distance and direction
Resistance and dissection
Assistance and perfection
Insistence and inspection

Stel Pontikes: In the song 'Memory Lane' Daniel Amos answers the inevitable question posed to almost all musical groups in their travels;
Terry Taylor: 'Why don't you do some of your old things?' There's many reasons why we don't dwell on the past or what Daniel Amos has done in the past. It's important that people believe that we're for real and that what we're doing we believe in. As a Christian I want to go on with my life, I want to go on with God. I think also this is applicable, this song is applicable to music in the fact that as Christians in the area of music we have been stale. And we can do something new and significant and meaningful that will be a greater witness really for Christ.

You have gotten much thinner
Your looking like a shadow
It's from dwelling on the might have beens
Living in the timewarp

Bruce Brown: While on the subject of concerts, being able to draw consistent crowds while touring is vital to the life of a band. With that thought in mind, we asked Terry how the music of Daniel Amos is being accepted on the road.
Terry Taylor: Well what's wonderful, is that there are people that have listened to Alarma! and know the music and are coming to the concerts and singing along with the songs. We had a chance to go down in the south where we'd never really been before as a group on our last tour and the crowds weren't great crowds they average between 500 and 700 people but they were enthusiastic crowds and accepting and that was a pleasant surprise for us. That doesn't mean that when we play at a concert situation that the whole crowd is right there. A lot of people remember Daniel Amos from the old days, they sometimes have a hard time with the new Daniel Amos, with the new music, with the new band. But I find that even those who sort of remember the old days often come up afterwards and say 'I am more of a fan of the mellow sort of things, but what you guys are doing I appreciate. It really does say something to me.' So I think by and large we're gaining an acceptance. People are seeing that we're not just grabbing the new wave thing for a while and that we'll eventually get back to our cowboy hats.
Stel Pontikes: When we as Christians attempt to reach the lost we often in our zealousness tend to paint a slightly unrealistic picture of the Christian walk as Terry explains in 'Angels Tuck You In.'
Terry Taylor: Evangelism sometimes falls short in that it tells a person 'ok you're nothing now God's given you life and everything is now hunky dory, you know everything's wonderful and you don't have to worry about it.' Well, you give a new child in Christ that conception of what Christianity is about they're in for a rude awakening. And I think some of them have had hard falls and have not recovered from that fall, the first trial that they ran into. A Christianity that says there is no suffering, and no pain, there's no trial is a false Christianity. I mean if Jesus suffered, we will suffer. That's what the Word tells us a servant is not greater than his master and so we understand that we are in that sense called to a life of suffering and a life of dying to ourselves. The key lyric in this is 'come to the garden, come to the hill, come to the tree, come to the kill, it won't break your bones (as they didn't break his) but it can break your will.' And that's the idea of brokeness before God so that God can breathe life into us and we can begin to serve him.

You hold an image it provides a common thread
No sense of menace no feeling of dread
You never worry your pretty little head
And Angels tuck you in tonight

Bruce Brown: 'Little Crosses' written and sung by Jerry Chamberlain deals with the temptation too attach to much importance to symbols that represent Christ and too little importance to a relationship with the Lord himself.
Terry Taylor: We've made the symbol of the cross sort of a sacred emblem. If we look at it as greater than the one who suffered there, I think we recognize that this was satan's defeat but what this song is really talking about is the paraphernalia. That we need these sort of symbols around us in order to give us a sense of security or whatever might be the reason. This song says 'Isn't it funny little crosses maybe my best friend' no, little crosses aren't my best friend, Jesus is my best friend.

These little crosses I see 'em on mt t.v.
Take my money and give me some of these

Stel Pontikes: Doppelganger is the second portion of a projected four album series by Daniel Amos. Thematically it stands on its own, but it's also an important segment of the series of which the Alarma! LP was album one.
Terry Taylor: We committed ourselves to doing the four albums and had an overall plan. So it wasn't something that we decided after the fact, something that we really wanted to do and felt excited about the entire project. We've already made plans for the next album and the themes of that album and the final album as well and the themes of that.
Stel Pontikes: Maintaining spiritual values in the midst of a computer age will be the theme of The Alarma Chronicles Volume III, Vox Robotica: The voice of the robot. There is a signpost on Doppelganger pointing towards the Vox Robotica album, the song 'Youth With A Machine.'
Terry Taylor: This brings up a grave question for Christian parents and their children: How do we as Christian parents instill within them spiritual values to see them through whatever this age may bring about? That you know even with Pacman and all this we're all being exposed to it but with kids it will become a way of life, the only way they will be able to go through school is to be involved in the computer thing. Basically your child is not going to be able to get work by the time he is old enough to go to work unless he knows how to operate a computer. And I know that Christians sort of cringe at this computer age, but I think again, if God's going to allow us to be in this world and the computer age is upon us and it is. Then what's really important is that we establish within our children a capacity for spiritual things.

Testing, testing, testing, testing
Youth with a machine
He needs to know how to handle it all
Youth with a machine
Show him the exits among the metal parts

Stel Pontikes: We'll return in a moment with a further look at the next Daniel Amos album and the conclusion of Doppelganger.
Bruce Brown: One of the most exciting concepts of the four album project Daniel Amos embarked upon in 1981 is The Alarma Chronicles a story written by Terry that will parallel the lyrical content of each album in the set.
Terry Taylor: A person is not used to opening up an album and finding a whole story that they have to read and this is why this is a little different. I am excited about the reaction of those who have read it. Who are very, very anxious to find out what's going to happen next. We've got letters many, many letters that say 'can we get this story even before you release the albums? Is it possible to get a copy or is there a complete book somewhere that we can purchase?'
Bruce Brown: Well naturally our curiosity got the better of us as well and we wondered what happens as the next chapters unfold in Vox Robotica.
Terry Taylor: Oh that would be like giving away the plot of a movie. I'm not going to do that but it will continue on. I am excited that it has been that well accepted and that people are anxious for it to go on.
Stel Pontikes: The album closes with 'Here I Am, There You Are.' summarizing many of the ideas and themes behind Doppelganger.
Terry Taylor: The song says 'don't worship me I am a person.' I am just a person I don't want to be larger than life and I don't want to be a God and I don't want to believe my own publicity. I want others to know that I'm just a person who plays guitar and writes songs and who wants to serve Christ. In the world we have this sort of class system you know, the musician is elevated and has this power and the audience is sort of less than that and sort of in awe and idolizing. Well in Christianity we should have a different set of standards, that we're all part of the same body of Christ, that there's no, because I'm standing on the stage with a guitar in my hand it doesn't elevate me to some high position. And I don't think of myself in that position. I need people to share with me their own feelings, their own suffering and then it becomes more than just an album, it becomes more than just a band playing on stage. Then it's the body of Christ and interaction and body life that is sort of vital to our health. And so this song 'Here I Am, There You Are' says lets just remember that we're all human beings and that we have our tears and we have our joy and we have our suffering and we have those victories just like anybody else.

Here I am, here I am
Driving to the studio with all of our equipment
Here I am, here I am
Singing in the microphone while the tape is rolling

Stel Pontikes: It's probable that Doppelganger is destined for even greater critical acclaim than Alarma! because of its ambitious musical, lyrical, and literary expressions. A key word which could be applied to the spiritual content of both albums is challenging. In fact, we wondered if Terry considered the concept of Doppelganger an even greater challenge to listeners than that of Alarma!
Terry Taylor: I know Alarma!, statements being made there and carried through into Doppelganger are challenges in my own life so I would hope that Doppelganger not only amplifies some of the challenges that, and some of the questions that Alarma! brought up but that it will further open up new challenges. Our songs are intended to stir up the gift that is in each one of us, to stir us on, to go on beyond the fundamentals. Not laying again the foundation which is already laid. This is again very personal, there is nothing on Doppelganger that says YOU that doesn't say at the same time ME, that's me Terry Taylor a person who falls short in all of these areas. The worship of material things, the idea of looking at people as objects, the lack of humanness in my art and being able to get beyond the records and the hype and all that and really be a person and really be able to minister to those around me. All of these things are problems in my life, issues in my life that I have not overcome altogether. And so I hope that as a person listens to Doppelganger, listens to Alarma! that that is understood. The only thing I can do is each and every day give my life to Christ. My music is a reflection of that and it is the best that I know how to do and is what I believe with all my heart and no one can veer me away from that. What I believe with all my heart I am doing unto the Lord.

Bruce Brown: You've been listening to an interview with Terry Taylor along with music from the latest Daniel Amos album Doppelganger, The Alarma Chronicles Volume II on Alarma Records and Tapes distributed by the Benson company. Address all correspondence to DA Intergalactica, PO Box 1051, Orange, California 92668. This program was produced by Living Water Productions for Living Water Productions and Stel Pontikes I'm Bruce Brown.