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Posted by audiori on 09-14-2004 at12:52:
I think a lot of people read the book incorrectly as if
it is saying everything is meaningless. Which would make
it depressing.
It seems like the writer was looking for meaning in a lot
of different things and found that those things didn't have
meaning. He comes to the realization that if we put our focus
on the things of earth it is depressing because those things
are vain. But that is not where our focus should be, which
is encouraging once we come to that realization. Because
it means the evil/bad things that happen in life should not
depress us, we should have joy and give thanks in all things.
Because it is God in the end that will turn all things to good
for those that love him.
Ecclesiastes 1
14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun;
and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness
and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 2
1 I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth,
therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.
11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought,
and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all
was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under
the sun.
17 Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought
under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and
vexation of spirit.
10 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor
he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
Ecclesiastes 6
9 Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the
desire: this is also vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 11
4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that
regardeth the clouds shall not reap.
6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold
not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper,
either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.
Ecclesiastes 12
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God,
and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every
secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Ecclesieastes 3
10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons
of men to be exercised in it.
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he
hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find
out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
There is no 'trick' to life. We are required to "keep his
commandments" and sow regardless of the circumstances
and leave it up to God to allow us to reap the good things
in his time. He is the judge.
Posted by dorfsmith on 09-14-2004 at13:15:
I've always thought of Solomon as the kind of guy who would have the bumper sticker on his donkey saying "He Who Dies With The Most Toys Wins" but we see him nearing the end of his life and it suddenly dawns on him that he is not winning anything. What good was it all? It was all meaningless.
The only Christian shirt that I ever liked said "He Who Dies With The Most Toys Still Dies" and it sure Mountain Dewed off a lot of the cool toughguy construction workers I used to work with.
Posted by audiori on 09-14-2004 at14:04:
Ecclesiastes 11
4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that
regardeth the clouds shall not reap.
This one says a lot to me, if you are hung up on the
garbage that comes and goes with no meaning..
the random good/bad stuff of life that happens to all...
it distracts you from doing the work you are here to do.
Ecclesiastes 1
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and
hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about
unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind
returneth again according to his circuits.
7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full;
unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they
return again.
Posted by Aqua Green Toupee on 09-14-2004 at16:58:
I don't believe Solomon actually wrote Ecclesiastes. It was quite common in the ancient world to write under a pseudonym -- especially in the name of a famous person.
Eccl. is sort of a "spoof" of Jewish wisdom literature, like Proverbs. Meaning it kind of gives the other side of the story. Proverbs kind of reads like if you have wisdom, you have it made. Someone said that reading Proverbs is like being on a long car trip with your mother. Eccl. explores the limits of Wisdom -- even Godly wisdom. Truly it has it's place, and is quite valuable. But ultimately it can not save us. Ultimately it cannot account for everything, or reduce the mystery of God. That's why the book ends the way it does -- sort of like its saying, in the end, all you have is God and God alone will have the final judgement. This is my opinion anyway. I'm still working on it.
And um, the hurricane stuff -- I was just trying to be funny.
Posted by audiori on 09-14-2004 at17:26:
"Eccl. is sort of a "spoof" of Jewish wisdom literature, like
Proverbs."
It is? Or your opinion it is?
Personally I think it fits nicely and says a lot of the same things
as Proverbs.
Posted by Aqua Green Toupee on 09-14-2004 at19:10:
Spoof isn't exactly the right word. I just mean that it shows you the other side of the coin. If Proverbs was all we had, one might come to belive that if you live a virtuous life, work hard, and try to be wise, everything will pretty much go your way. Eccl. kind of says look, all that is well and good, but you-know-what happens. That's just the way life goes. There's a time for evrything under the sun -- a time for good stuff and a time for bad stuff. Whether you're wise or not. But yeah, you're right -- I didn't mean to say that it is anti-Proverbs or anything.
Posted by Aqua Green Toupee on 09-14-2004 at19:19:
Never mind.
Posted by jiminy on 09-14-2004 at20:19:
my simple look
AGT-
I think I see your point- and I agree in principle-
Proverbs and Eccl are like "Points to Ponder", though I dont think they are too tongue in cheek
A comparison might be like Proverbs and Poor Richards MAxim
"Its hard for an empty sack to stand in the Corner"
and Eccl could be a t-shirt that reads
Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?"
Posted by Aqua Green Toupee on 09-14-2004 at21:22:
RE: my simple look
| quote: |
Originally posted by jiminy
AGT-
I think I see your point- and I agree in principle-
Proverbs and Eccl are like "Points to Ponder", though I dont think they are too tongue in cheek
A comparison might be like Proverbs and Poor Richards MAxim
"Its hard for an empty sack to stand in the Corner"
and Eccl could be a t-shirt that reads
Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?" |
Heh, heh.
Posted by Aqua Green Toupee on 09-15-2004 at08:42:
I hope that moderator guy(s) doesn't think I'm a heathen. I actually liked what he said about Eccl.
Posted by Eleanor on 09-15-2004 at08:54:
| quote: |
Originally posted by Aqua Green Toupee
I hope that moderator guy(s) doesn't think I'm a heathen. I actually liked what he said about Eccl. |
I wouldn't worry about the a-bros...
it's the rest of us here that you should worry about
Posted by audiori on 09-15-2004 at09:34:
Nah we were just pushing a little to see what spills out.
Posted by carl on 09-15-2004 at09:37:
Great minds think alike....
....well, apparently you and DorkBoy do anyway....
Posted by Woggy on 09-15-2004 at12:19:
| quote: |
Originally posted by jiminy
sardonic toward them
not with them..
the answer- perhaps its the
"since your here in a place that I can ravage with my breath...ah, why not?"
I dunno - does that sound like God at his best sarcastic self? |
that would be you're, not your.....
PollyWoggy, Grammar Queen
I think it's because of all the snakes....................
human, and otherwise!
muahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Posted by carl on 09-15-2004 at13:04:
Will you give them a group rate, or will it be on a case-by-case basis?
Posted by Eleanor on 09-15-2004 at13:14:
well I ain’t gonna do it pro bono!
Posted by carl on 09-15-2004 at13:18:
I'd've thought you WOULD do it "pro Bono." He's bigger than the 77s, you know.
Posted by Eleanor on 09-15-2004 at13:27:
damb island records!!
Posted by Aqua Green Toupee on 09-15-2004 at18:40:
How come I'm not allowed to say "angry" but dorf can post a nekkid lady?
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