 Church - A Love Hate Relationship |
DrDanAmos 
Dignified Lazar
Registration Date: 09-06-2003
Posts: 79
Location: Kansas City
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Originally posted by jiminy
sounds like our backgrounds are not too far off. I grew up catholic- went to a holiness church (UPC) through my 20s and 30s, and then to A of G or E/Free related- though I've rather been unsettled the past few years.
I think we may all have personal reasons for "where we are at" churchwise- I love gathering places and feeling and sharing the grace and Spirit of our Lord- just not sure if thats always at one place week to week -know what I mean?
there was a day when I'd say to folks- "What, No Home Church? Are you backslid, lost, or WHAT!!?!?. Wheres your commitment- yer backbone!?"
Well- thats obviously changed, and I've choked on a few crow feathers for that bit o' stink.
I DO believe in fellowship- and sharing , and "leaning" as it were - and even the ol book o' Heb. COMMAND about "not forsaking the assembling of yourselves..."
I aint forsakin it- just on a mmmaajjoorr sabbatical. |
I am a former UPC member as well. For me, it wasn't about backsliding or anything like that that made me leave (though I know my spirituality suffered after I left, don't get me wrong, I am making no excuses here for anything). The UPC church I came into was just awesome. It had to be one of the best churches I had the opportunity to attend, and I think the pastor was truly led of God and was a good man. One example I can use is we rented out a Weslyan building for our Sunday services. Well, I guess they didn't like us there because they decided to jack up the rent on us, and our small congregation just could not make it work. My pastor was told he owed them such and such an amount and he was determined to pay a different amount in the rent due, which was less than they were owed. He asked the congregation to pray about it, and we did, and the entire time I prayed, I felt a scripture come to me about if somebody asks you for your coat, you give them your shirt too. That was REAL strong in my mind as I prayed. After the prayer service, all the congregation said they felt it was fine to pay the lowest amount he was willing to pay, including his wife. I declined my comment at the time because I felt, well, maybe I was mistaken in what I felt to be from God. But it bothered me and after the service i told him about what I felt when we prayed. I discovered later, completely by accident, that he did pay the lower amount, but also gave them an additional check, which was for half the amount additional that they were asking for. It was all he could afford to pay the Weslyans. So, yeah, there are really good churces out there, and this was one of them, for sure.
And I also felt really fed there. There were a couple of examples of times sermons my pastor gave were so dead on, so specific to my situation, and covered things he could never possibly know about. One such case was when I was witnessing to a neighbor, and I invited him to church. He agreed to go, and on a Sunday morning we were walking to church and he kept on asking me all these random questions about God and the Bible, deep stuff I could not even begin to answer for him. When we got to church and the sermon started, my pastor said he had a message all prepared but felt in prayer to go in a different direction and started to answer EVERY question my friend had just asked me in our walk to Church. That can only be God. There is no credit any man can take in something so awesome, so amazing.
So why don't I go to church anymore? Because there has been no church in any area I've moved to that has been that good, really, and where I currently live, I truly felt the pastor and some of the congregation members didn't want me to go there. I could go into greater detail, but in many ways I feel like Joseph who was put into bonds by his own brothers. And since then, the church I started out in closed down and I have no idea how to get in contact with my former pastor, though I would like to contact him because there are some great things I would like to share with him.
The only place I've found who has teachings that really touch me is the Trinity Organization out of Dallas Texas, which is pastored by Ole Anthony. I can download his Bible studies online and the stuff he covers is pretty solid, I feel, and good stuff to grow on. In the meantime, I just wait and pray to God to lead me to the Church He wants me to go to. I know in these last days, it's important to have that fellowship of believers, and I want that, but the churches I've seen are so watered down, and I just cannot go. There are other UPC churces I've checked out (including the one that I felt didn't welcome me into their midst) that just fall short of the mark. I could go into more details on that, but this thread isn't about dogging other religions. But it's good to see this thread and know I am not alone in my feelings. I guess Moses wasn't the only one who wandered in the desert for quite a while.
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03-06-2004 14:27 |
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Mountain Fan
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 10-09-2003
Posts: 14,224
Location: NC, Alive and Kicking, BOBD
Thread Starter 
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| RE: Church - A Love Hate Relationship |
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Originally posted by Squidzit
Mountain, I had the same problem for a long time. I used to get anoyed at people that I thought were just going through the motions. People that were going for the glory and recognition. I used to get frustrated with people all the time. Then I realized that the same people that I had problems with also had problems with me. Hmmmm, maybe I was not the only on that was right. Novel idea that. 
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Amen!
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| I did the whole "Steeple Chase" thing. Apostolic, UPC, AG. I even tried Presbyterian. I kinda liked that. Very different than any church I had ever been to. |
Although I have been to a number of different denominations, I haven't felt like I have been steeple chasing, more of God chasing.
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My mom and dad always told me to keep my eyes on God and not the people around me. They said when I was perfect, the others would be also. I finaly got it. 
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I quit going to the church I grew up in because of the looking at man thing and stayed away 3 or 4 years. After I got saved I think I had learned my lesson on this point.
My biggest problem now has been with church leadership seeming to lead many astray, not just looking at their personal imperfections like we all have. The last church we were in had a lot of that "phony crap to get attendance up" type stuff going on behind the scenes as near as I can tell (dorfsmith quote from Angels thread in off-topic area). I wouldn't quite call them a cult yet but they were well on their way there. Some friends of ours that now go to our church but used to go to a different one in the area really had an experience where their "Christian church" turned into a cult.
My wife and I were talking that it is really sad when you need support groups for people damaged by churches. The church is supposed to be the support group for the world. There's this guy called (I think) David Heinke from Georgia that some of them have met with to get past their experiences. They are now doing a study from this group. (I couldn't find the info. I'm at home with our 2 1/2 boy who "lost his corn" last night. My wife is at church with our daughter).
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Now I've moved to Ohio and need to find another church. I'd better get my "I want to be a clone" tape out and dust it off. It's gonna be a bumpy ride. 
Pray for me and my family. |
Prayers going up! May God bless your family with a short search and a path to a great body of believers making a difference in your new community and making allowances for individuality and imperfections!
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03-07-2004 11:49 |
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Mountain Fan
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 10-09-2003
Posts: 14,224
Location: NC, Alive and Kicking, BOBD
Thread Starter
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| RE: Church - A Love Hate Relationship |
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Ok, here's a link:
http://www.watchman.org/watchman.htm
This is the organization that David Heinke is associated with (President or the like).
dheinke@watchman.org
Note this is NOT affiliated in any way with the Watchtower society of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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03-07-2004 12:33 |
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