Mountain Fan 
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 10-09-2003
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I hate to think of all the lost sales to date for not having downloads available (and more product available in the webstore). I bet it would far surpass anything that will be made when CDs are actually able to get rereleased. Heck, the download business would probably fund a reissue or two anyways. 
If I downloaded all the songs on an album, I wouldn't want to pay as much to get the CD though, just to get the artwork and liner notes.
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02-22-2006 11:31 |
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Audiori J
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Registration Date: 11-27-2004
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Yeah the problem we have had with downloads so far is usually have to go through some service to do it. Which means they take a cut. If the market is already small, then that cut can make it sort of unfinancially wise. Also if it reduces the market for the CDs which are much more financially strong for the indipendant artists...you cut your finances again.
With a small market, you basicaly have to try and reduce your cost as much as possible and maximize your proffit. If you can put CDs out yourself with as low of studio cost as possible..and make the CD worth buying you can actually start making enough money to continue.
Basically to me, the fact that the market is small makes the strategies more complex.
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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." ~ Robert Frost
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02-22-2006 11:44 |
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Mark
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Registration Date: 03-18-2002
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Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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I don't know. I think there is a place for Christian music, even the rah rah type for some people. 
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But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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02-22-2006 19:30 |
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DwDunphy
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 08-18-2003
Posts: 1,817
Location: Red Bank, New Jersey
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Christian music, such as it is, is out in the public sphere. You have your P.O.D.s, Switchfoots and all making music on major labels. However, you also have a sense of dilution going on, where these groups feel they have to swing a bit to be hip.
I was so disappointed when P.O.D. did an on-air on a local rock radio station... It was probably two or three years ago... and the topic of conversation was whether they and the D.J. would pop in the Paris Hilton sex tape for another peek. I understand that in the real world, these conversations do happen, be they serious or in jest. I'm not asking for Christian musicians to purport to be completely blameless and saintly, but there are limits. This was a crossed limit and, no. I would not be able to take them at face value again, no matter how hard they slam the praise.
It also bothers me that, year by year, songs like The Eddies "The Twist" become increasingly impossible to put out there because its too rocky to be Christian but too Christian for the teens to swallow.
I'm a killjoy, I know.
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02-22-2006 22:25 |
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Mountain Fan
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 10-09-2003
Posts: 14,224
Location: NC, Alive and Kicking, BOBD
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| quote: |
Originally posted by DwDunphy
Christian music, such as it is, is out in the public sphere. You have your P.O.D.s, Switchfoots and all making music on major labels. However, you also have a sense of dilution going on, where these groups feel they have to swing a bit to be hip.
I was so disappointed when P.O.D. did an on-air on a local rock radio station... It was probably two or three years ago... and the topic of conversation was whether they and the D.J. would pop in the Paris Hilton sex tape for another peek. I understand that in the real world, these conversations do happen, be they serious or in jest. I'm not asking for Christian musicians to purport to be completely blameless and saintly, but there are limits. This was a crossed limit and, no. I would not be able to take them at face value again, no matter how hard they slam the praise.
It also bothers me that, year by year, songs like The Eddies "The Twist" become increasingly impossible to put out there because its too rocky to be Christian but too Christian for the teens to swallow.
I'm a killjoy, I know. |
Maybe there's too many Christian bands trying to be the next Beatles or something? At least they're not doing Creed-type stuff (we hope). 
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02-24-2006 10:45 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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well - the pendulum between artistry and publicity has always been with us. It is in the CCM Market as well as other "entertainment" realms.
One of the biggest problems- or factoids - with the CCM market- is its NOT just an entertainment avenue..it is (well-or should be) a message bearing medium.
Other than educational TV- I cant think of another driven market that is trying to influence people the way that Christian Music supposed to be. Thats why its so frustrating-
Rah Rah C Music does have its place- it inspires in an easy to swallow format.
Independent CCM of course has its place- to challange and draw in ones thinking.
THe CCM Market is a huge industry now- some of us remember the day when you EXPECTED sound quality to be hackish at best- at least a huge majority of all the CCM (well - and music in general) has a lasting quality that was never there say 35 years ago. AND the independent artists were really in the cave..so I thank the Lord that we can enjoy quality from all sides of this "Inspirationally" driven market.
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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02-23-2006 07:30 |
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voxrob
Sublime Brain Puppet
Registration Date: 09-02-2003
Posts: 87
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| Driving towards two goals |
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>>"I cant think of another driven market that is trying to influence people the way that Christian Music supposed to be."
And I think this was a problem with the ccm of the 70s, and perhaps even now... it was trying to serve two masters -- to be pop/rock music and also to communcate a message. Because of the communication issue, Christian "rock" always sounded different -- because the lyrics needed to be understood and comprehensible. It was always tamer (and some might say, "lamer").
The protest folk music in the early 60s had the same twin goals -- try to be popular (but only to a certain point) and also to communicate a message. I'm not sure how many people they converted -- I suppose most people who listened to that music alot already agreed with those points of view. But look what happened to someone like Bob Dylan -- he needed to branch out, become more creative, and the protest folk music was simply too confining. And all hell broke out when he plugged in that guitar because he wanted to be an artist.
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02-23-2006 14:15 |
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Audiori J
Administrator
Registration Date: 11-27-2004
Posts: 7,728
Location: "Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I AM stuck in the middle with you." - Stealers Wheel
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Yeah I agree. Its an unfortunate reality of life that even the inspirational medium has to make money to continue. Its all part of being in the world and having to work for food.
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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." ~ Robert Frost
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02-23-2006 12:31 |
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Mark
Moderator
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
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Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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You do know that another collection is posted and is already up to $125 with over 4 days left?
These Loose Ends CD's have been posted and sold numerous times over the past couple of months.
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But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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02-23-2006 20:35 |
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samson
Esculent Eskimo
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
Posts: 46
Location: California ( stop surffing )
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The qustion is how does one keep the older stuff a live put in the hand of the one that never heard of it, if raido wont play it and a CD is not going to happen then what are you will to do to keep it a live , have we ( the ones that love and rember Christian Music the way is supposed to be) have be come the hands and feet???? ...
any thoughs??????
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02-23-2006 22:26 |
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Audiori J
Administrator
Registration Date: 11-27-2004
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| quote: |
Originally posted by samson
...and a CD is not going to happen... any thoughs?????? |
I think they will happen. We are determined they will.
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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." ~ Robert Frost
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02-24-2006 09:48 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
| quote: |
Originally posted by samson
...and a CD is not going to happen... any thoughs?????? |
I think they will happen. We are determined they will. |
Yeah, we're really in a unique spot to do it now.
In the past, there were occasions where we would hear rumblings of reissues.. and then nothing would happen. Then, we'd hear KMG or somebody was going to reissue stuff.. then nothing would happen. For the first time since our involvement with the guys, it looks like it will actually happen. Several things have changed in the last year and a half or two years... for starters, the DA store is in better shape financially than it ever was before - which of course helps fund new releases and tape restoration. For the first time *ever*, we actually have a budget to work with! Terry's in a pretty good spot as well with Catscratch.. and he's also pretty determined to see it happen as well. He's been throwing some interesting ideas our way about future reissues, and digging through old tapes and photos to find bonus material. There are still some issues to deal with on certain titles, but we're all pretty determined to make it happen one way or another.
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"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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02-24-2006 16:40 |
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samson
Esculent Eskimo
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
Posts: 46
Location: California ( stop surffing )
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| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
| quote: |
Originally posted by samson
...and a CD is not going to happen... any thoughs?????? |
I think they will happen. We are determined they will. |
Yeah, we're really in a unique spot to do it now.
In the past, there were occasions where we would hear rumblings of reissues.. and then nothing would happen. Then, we'd hear KMG or somebody was going to reissue stuff.. then nothing would happen. For the first time since our involvement with the guys, it looks like it will actually happen. Several things have changed in the last year and a half or two years... for starters, the DA store is in better shape financially than it ever was before - which of course helps fund new releases and tape restoration. For the first time *ever*, we actually have a budget to work with! Terry's in a pretty good spot as well with Catscratch.. and he's also pretty determined to see it happen as well. He's been throwing some interesting ideas our way about future reissues, and digging through old tapes and photos to find bonus material. There are still some issues to deal with on certain titles, but we're all pretty determined to make it happen one way or another. |
this is all good to here, the nex qustion is when will this happen to someone like Randy Stonehill and maney others how do we help them when they cant even get there hands on there own Music and it harder to find old copies of it
every day ...
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02-25-2006 23:12 |
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Audiori J
Administrator
Registration Date: 11-27-2004
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Well, the loose ends CDs were stunt approved bootlegs to begin with, stunt could approve some other people to bootleg em. 
Which it looks like we should do, someone is probably just making copies over and over and selling em.
__________________
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." ~ Robert Frost
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02-24-2006 09:46 |
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Mountain Fan
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 10-09-2003
Posts: 14,224
Location: NC, Alive and Kicking, BOBD
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02-24-2006 10:46 |
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bigdork.2
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 11-22-2004
Posts: 690
Location: posting slump
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
Well, the loose ends CDs were stunt approved bootlegs to begin with, stunt could approve some other people to bootleg em.
Which it looks like we should do, someone is probably just making copies over and over and selling em. |
that's what I have...
boots of the original(?) boots.
At the time I thought they were just like any other boot out there for trading and I think they still get traded quite a bit.
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can I be my own buddy?
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02-24-2006 16:24 |
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Audiori J
Administrator
Registration Date: 11-27-2004
Posts: 7,728
Location: "Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I AM stuck in the middle with you." - Stealers Wheel
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Yeah that can change. 
__________________
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." ~ Robert Frost
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02-24-2006 11:10 |
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DwDunphy
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 08-18-2003
Posts: 1,817
Location: Red Bank, New Jersey
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See, this thread has brought out something that drives me nuts. When "Loose Ends" was in the domain of Stunt, that was cool. That meant whatever profit that was gained went back into the system. Now that these apparent knock-offs are on EBay, and doing sickeningly well, that money is going primarily toward someone's greed. I'm hard pressed to think there's a better, underlying spiritual reason.
If only people held back and waited for the 'official bootlegs'... I hope the Audiori will make it happen and shut down the rascals. Think of how wrong it would be if suddenly there were knock-offs of the "HodgePodge" and "Farm Beetles" discs, scooping up massive bids on EBay, after all the struggle and pre-order confusion and such they generated, not to mention the hairline budget they guys had to work with.
Sorry. It just bugs me, thassall.
But if the official Loose Ends happen, can I make a design suggestion? I think the individual CDs should be marginally spare, designed to look like 45 rpm singles and sleeves. This way, should more material be found, cleaned up and/or generated, the individual discs could be collected in a unified, cohesive way. A box, like the old 45 rpm record carriers, could be issued later on to collect them in a snappy way, but again, its an open-ended design to accomodate future releases.
Any thoughts?
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02-27-2006 19:15 |
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Mark
Moderator
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 9,525
Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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I like your idea about looking like records.
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But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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02-27-2006 19:40 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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RIght now, I'm looking for our own copies of the Loose Ends stuff.. I'm pretty sure we had a copy of all of those.
One thought was to put something in the DA Cafe Press store... you can do jewel cases with artwork, etc and the band would get the bulk of the money. Looks like they take more for jewel case/booklet packaging than just simple paper sleeves (with artwork).. but, we could actually offer both options and folks could just buy whichever one they want.
If CafePress doesn't take a huge amount, we could actually put up some of the other lower quality bootlegs that probably won't be released for real as well. We had thought about putting some older oddball things up like Swirling Mellow before..
We could also order some ourselves and stick em up on ebay.
All of this could go towards funding the reissue series.. if sales go well that is.
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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02-27-2006 21:41 |
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