audiori 
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I know that last time I heard, his schedule was pretty full through early August I believe. I'm sure he'd try to work something out for Cornerstone, but it might not be possible.
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05-26-2012 12:19 |
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MarkyMark77
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Registration Date: 10-11-2002
Posts: 512
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It's pretty crazy what these guys charge. We brought in a speaker (1 guy, minimal props) for a 1-hour session, and he charges $5500 for that, but he cut it down to $3500. I can pay a few hundred bucks and have Mike Roe play in my living room, and have several times. Worth every penny, and I'm actually seeing someone who has honed a talent and skill. I echo what has been said here: they charge what the market will bear, and seem to be leaving the concept of ministry by the wayside, even as they tout their music or speaking as ministry of some kind.
I won't make it this year, sadly, but with Over the Rhine and Bill Mallonee dropping out, there are two acts right there that might have pushed me over the edge to attending. C-Stone was a great experience when I've attended, and even though it has changed, it was still a great catch-all for bands you never see, and certainly never see in one place. That said, you'd think since they've been doing it this long, they could have pulled it together and gotten a clue about who their core audience were/are. The average C-Stone ticket buyer probably wasn't going for Toby Mac.
I like the older bands and the newer bands (really dug Flatfoot 56 the last time I was there), and really enjoyed that cross section.
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05-26-2012 20:20 |
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audiori
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Registration Date: 03-12-2002
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Location: Missouri
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The idea of a Lost Dogs Fest was on the table at one point believe it or not. I think it was when it was clear that Cornerstone was moving away from these guys to some degree. The idea was tossed around to just skip all of the other festivals and start a new one with all of the Dogs bands and their friends. I don't think locations were ever discussed but it would probably have been in Tennessee or someplace like that where some of them are already located. That was probably 2002 or 2003. Somewhere in there. The idea was to keep it small.. maybe one or two days and just have every combination of these bands playing over that time period... solo shows, each band doing a show, a Dogs show.. add in Undercover, Riki Michele and anyone else that was available at the time.
It was hard enough that it never happened back then, and unfortunately I think it would be a lot harder now. They may figure out something similar though.. something in the midwest that they can do every year and count on it being there the way Cornerstone used to be.
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"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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05-26-2012 21:02 |
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Ritchie_az
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 07-02-2008
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Location: Arizona
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It doesn't have to be over-the-top or huge. One stage, one day is probably enough. Maybe two stages if there's a lot of interest.
It would be a great way for the fans to see the artists they love and also to be with people who have a similar taste in music.
If the kickstarter thing works ( 
I said if, shame on me!), maybe kickstarter could be used to raise funds for the fest.
It would take someone grabbing and running with this (any volunteers?). I could certainly see it coming together, but probably no sooner than summer 2014.
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05-26-2012 23:07 |
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wayneb
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 04-24-2002
Posts: 1,296
Location: New Zealand
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I guess that we have the same sort of thing here in NZ with the Parachute festival. It attracts up to 25,000 people over a 3 day weekend.
It's been going over 20 years and has followed a similar pattern to Cornerstone in some ways. As the years have progressed they have booked more "big name" bands and allowed for fewer smaller acts. (this year we had Casting Crowns as the big act). Smaller merchandising people have been squeezed out as fees went up.
A lot of the festival is run by volunteers and I know of one case personally where one of the volunteers was bankrupted when some gear went missing and the organisers left him to foot the bill.
The organisers have watched the trends a bit more carefully, however, and when it became obvious that prices were too high and there would be fewer coming in 2012 they dropped prices for families to "whatever they can afford". This meant that we were able to go this year.
So, the festival will go on here and hopefully offer something for everyone. I haven't been to many but have great memories of watching Delerious perform late one evening and casting Crowns were pretty good this year. Meeting Uncle Rand was my highlight this year though!
There's stiil a place for festivals...
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05-31-2012 05:39 |
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sprinklerhead
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 12-11-2003
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Location: Austin, TX
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05-31-2012 20:33 |
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wakachiwaka
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 07-26-2007
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Yup - I was there at the inaugural fest in '84 too. Thankfully, I do not appear in any of the above footage. 
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06-01-2012 00:34 |
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Ritchie_az
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 07-02-2008
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Location: Arizona
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Are you the clown? 
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06-01-2012 12:29 |
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sprinklerhead
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 12-11-2003
Posts: 1,290
Location: Austin, TX
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Ritchie_az
Are you the clown?
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Nope. Not the clown and not sure I really want to admit where we come in at haha
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I had another dream about lions at the door
They weren't half as frightening as they were before
But I'm thinking about eternity
And I'm wondering where the lions are...
I'm wondering where the lions are...
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06-01-2012 13:54 |
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sprinklerhead
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 12-11-2003
Posts: 1,290
Location: Austin, TX
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Was 84 the year that Steve Taylor broke his ankle?
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I had another dream about lions at the door
They weren't half as frightening as they were before
But I'm thinking about eternity
And I'm wondering where the lions are...
I'm wondering where the lions are...
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06-01-2012 15:29 |
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sprinklerhead
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 12-11-2003
Posts: 1,290
Location: Austin, TX
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| quote: |
Originally posted by sondance
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| Nope. Not the clown and not sure I really want to admit where we come in at haha |
pretty sure that was you and some buds messing around with a microphone in your short shorts:-)
some styles beg to be replaced
still... quite a performance, well done! |
Well, the secret is out 
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I had another dream about lions at the door
They weren't half as frightening as they were before
But I'm thinking about eternity
And I'm wondering where the lions are...
I'm wondering where the lions are...
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06-07-2012 10:01 |
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Ritchie_az
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 07-02-2008
Posts: 2,139
Location: Arizona
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Was there a trombonist with DA?
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06-01-2012 12:34 |
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vapspwi
Dark Steamy Cabbage
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 21
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| quote: |
Originally posted by wayneb
It's been going over 20 years and has followed a similar pattern to Cornerstone in some ways. As the years have progressed they have booked more "big name" bands and allowed for fewer smaller acts. |
While it may be accurate to say that Cornerstone booked a few more "big acts" for Main Stage as the years went by (although they still put bands like Underoath and The Devil Wears Prada on Main Stage, too), it's not accurate to say that they allowed for fewer smaller acts. For as long as I've been going, there have been bands ranging from upstarts all the way up to the Main Stage acts. In recent years, as the fest "formalized" the generator stages to make them a little less random and intrusive, there's been even MORE of an opportunity for pretty much anybody to play the fest.
JRjr
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06-05-2012 15:24 |
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Audiori J
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Well.... fewer that count would probably be more accurate. I mean face it if your budget is $1000... you can either book 50 moderate sized bands at $20 a piece... or 5 big bands at $150 a piece, 10 moderate bands at $20 and 100 lousy bands at $2 a piece. I think it would be fair to say they seemed to go from the first option to the second. Quantity doesn't mean quality.
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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence." ~ Robert Frost
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06-05-2012 18:13 |
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vapspwi
Dark Steamy Cabbage
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 21
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
Well.... fewer that count would probably be more accurate. I mean face it if your budget is $1000... you can either book 50 moderate sized bands at $20 a piece... or 5 big bands at $150 a piece, 10 moderate bands at $20 and 100 lousy bands at $2 a piece. I think it would be fair to say they seemed to go from the first option to the second. Quantity doesn't mean quality. |
I suspect (and I haven't seen any evidence to make me doubt my suspicion) that you've got a bit of DA-focused tunnel vision when it comes to "quality."
Upthread, somebody posited 2005 as the year things took a turn for the worse. I think I've already listed a bunch of bands from 2005, so I'll pick 2007 totally at random and see who was on the schedule:
The Becoming - surprisingly good goth/glam, My Chemical Romance kind of band
Ruth - new band to me at the time, and I haven't heard anything from them lately, but they were a pleasant find that year
Jonezetta - really dug the _Popularity_ album from these guys; 80s throwback rock, a la the Killers
The Wayside - JJT's roots-rock outfit
Run Kid Run - nice, melodic pop-rock T&N band
Spoken - At about the upper end of heaviness that I prefer, but they're really good live, and surprisingly outspoken about matters of faith for a modern T&N band
Flatfoot 56 - wildly entertaining Celtic punk
Maron Gaffron - great voice, a pleasure to listen to
The Lee Boys - kind of in the same realm as Robert Randolph
David Crowder Band - I'm not a worship music fan, but Crowder's thing is pretty good
tobyMac - yeah, I guess he's part of the problem (big name, mainstream stuff), but I like his shows are a lot of fun
House of Heroes - just a good straightforward rock band
The Violet Burning / Michael Pritzl - separate sets; TVB is one of my all-time favorite bands
Paper Route - one of my favorite new bands of the last few years; I saw them in Atlanta last Friday, and it was awesome
Deas Vail - another really good new band, and I think they were just getting started in 2007
Monk - Ric Hordinski (formerly of Over the Rhine) doing his jazzy guitar thing
Rosie Thomas - not really my thing, but she's charming
Anberlin - another of my current favorite bands
Starflyer 59 - they've quietly been putting out solid album after solid album for years
Leigh Nash - her set was nice, although it was mostly solo stuf with an acoustic guitarist and not Sixpence-intensive
Relient K - tons of fun; I really like them, and they've got some great songs
Copeland - kind of at the wussy end of music I prefer, but they have some nice songs
Over the Rhine - another all-time favorite
All the Day Holiday - I enjoy their stuff - modern rock
Future of Forestry - similar to All the Day Holiday
Mike Roe - Nuff Said
Roe vs. Pritzl - nice collaboration between a couple of old timers
Whitecross - throwback metal
Bride - throwback metal
X-Sinner - throwback metal
Switchfoot - I don't like them as much as the next person, but _Hello Hurricane_ was a solid album
Bloodgood - still more throwback metal
The Lost Dogs - you know these guys
Jeff Elbel + Ping - in the spirt of the old days, I think
Family Force 5 - dumb fun
Leeland - a bit teenybopper, but pretty good
Sleeping at Last - a la Copeland, a little mellower than I prefer, but good
That's almost 40 bands that I, an old guy that grew up on Petra and the Choir, like, and I didn't even get into the stuff that "the kids" really enjoy, like Showbread, mewithoutYou, The Devil Wears Prada, Underoath, etc.
Sorry, but the argument that it's just quantity and not quality doesn't hold water. They've got both - almost 40 bands that I wanted to see or saw and enjoyed, a bunch more that aren't my thing but have their fans, and a ton more stuff besides.
JRjr
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06-06-2012 20:04 |
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Audiori J
Administrator
Registration Date: 11-27-2004
Posts: 7,728
Location: "Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I AM stuck in the middle with you." - Stealers Wheel
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| quote: |
Originally posted by vapspwi
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Originally posted by Audiori J
Well.... fewer that count would probably be more accurate. I mean face it if your budget is $1000... you can either book 50 moderate sized bands at $20 a piece... or 5 big bands at $150 a piece, 10 moderate bands at $20 and 100 lousy bands at $2 a piece. I think it would be fair to say they seemed to go from the first option to the second. Quantity doesn't mean quality. |
I suspect (and I haven't seen any evidence to make me doubt my suspicion) that you've got a bit of DA-focused tunnel vision when it comes to "quality."
Sorry, but the argument that it's just quantity and not quality doesn't hold water. They've got both - almost 40 bands that I wanted to see or saw and enjoyed, a bunch more that aren't my thing but have their fans, and a ton more stuff besides.
JRjr |
I suspect (and I haven't seen any evidence to make me doubt my suspicion) that you've got a bit of chip on your shoulder or an axe to grind. Just because I had worked for DA doesn't mean I have some sort of DA-focused tunnel vision. I have experience with this band and I used my experience with them as an example in this thread, but everything I said could of been applied to many other bands. There are tons of bands that could of made a lot of money for the fest if the merch tents were handled better for example.
Towards the end of your post you seem to do exactly what you accuse me of.. you make it seem that DA is my measuring stick when it comes to quality... and then you use 'bands you wanted to see' as your measuring stick to prove there were plenty of quality bands.
My points really have more to do with financial stability, than my taste in music. The fest is ending because of finances, you claim they have not made money over the years, a claim that technically just can't make sense, but even if we assume that is true; I am saying they have made poor financial choices. They have not handled the bands financially wisely, my experience with DA is just an example of that. Its just not financially wise to relegate a band that made the most merch money of any band ever in the history of the fest to some obscure corner of the extra merch tent. There are plenty of other bands who have the same characteristics of cult followings that could do the same thing as what DA has done. Those bands could of helped generate more funds for the fest, but they were not handled well or focused on for quite a few years.
Bands that are stable and not 'here today and gone tomorrow' can bring in more finances. Bands that have cult followings that have existed for years can bring in more finances. Bands that tour less frequently can bring in more finances. But the fest has to recognize their worth and how to focus on them and set them up for win/win situations. Everything I am saying could be applied to DA, but also to Keaggy, Fleming and John (as my brother said), the 77s, the Lost Dogs, the Choir, VOL (one of your favorites), Tonio K and Sixteen Tons of Monkeys, Bruce Cockburn, and so on. Bands similar to the ones that started the fest.
I am saying they didn't handle these types of bands well in the last several years and it hurt the fest financially. I think their 'vision' changed and they thought the big acts would save them financially and I think it actually hurt them in the long run, because those bands cost a LOT more and the return for investment is far from guaranteed. I think if the fest was hurting financially, as you contend, then spending huge amounts of money on these big type bands was bound to limit their budget on the other bands. Hense filling up the 100+ band roster with 'here today gone tomorrow' bands that while some might think they are great, the majority thinks are just filler. Filler that doesn't generate much income either, I might add.
I also think some of their decisions have driven away some of their most loyal financial supporters. It was the old timers that would come to the fest with yearly savings to spend literally hundreds of dollars on merch.. while the 'new generation' of fest goers wander around the merch tents asking for free stuff. As someone who has worked the fest for quite a few years I see the distinction and it is an important one for a fest that is financially dieing.
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06-06-2012 21:59 |
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vapspwi
Dark Steamy Cabbage
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 21
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
I suspect (and I haven't seen any evidence to make me doubt my suspicion) that you've got a bit of chip on your shoulder or an axe to grind.
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Certainly no chip on my shoulder, and like I said before, the only axe I have to grind is the truth - a fair representation of what actually goes on at Cornerstone.
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Originally posted by Audiori J
Just because I had worked for DA doesn't mean I have some sort of DA-focused tunnel vision.
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It just kind of seems that way, based on the fact that I don't think anybody else in this thread has named a band they like that came into existence within the last 10-15 years. It's hard to reconcile the "the fest ignores good bands" assertion when a lot of the measuring sticks for "good" are bands like DA, the 77s, Fleming & John, and VOL (yeah, Mallonee's still soldiering on, but it's not the same) that are barely active beyond sporadically (if at all) anymore.
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Originally posted by Audiori J
Towards the end of your post you seem to do exactly what you accuse me of.. you make it seem that DA is my measuring stick when it comes to quality... and then you use 'bands you wanted to see' as your measuring stick to prove there were plenty of quality bands.
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Yeah, it was "bands I wanted to see." I'm a 41 year old guy that was raised on classic CCM stuff, probably like a lot of folks here, so that list covered a wide gamut of styles, some of which other people might like if they had ever heard it. I also mentioned a lot of other stuff that's widely regarded as "good" that I don't personally care for. It's not all screaming and chainsaw bands.
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Originally posted by Audiori J
They have not handled the bands financially wisely, my experience with DA is just an example of that. Its just not financially wise to relegate a band that made the most merch money of any band ever in the history of the fest to some obscure corner of the extra merch tent.
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I'm really not sure that matters. For one thing, people who want DA merch are going to find DA merch if it's there to be had. For another thing, is that even sustainable? I've been going to the fest for 15 years, and I think I've seen DA there like 3 times (and I really doubt Cornerstone turned them down in those other 12 years). If they WERE there every year, would they set records in years when you weren't selling the Alarma Chronicles set or whatever? Once everybody owns everything the band has to offer, sales are going to drop off, and DA hasn't been all that prolific in the last decade or so.
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Originally posted by Audiori J
Bands that are stable and not 'here today and gone tomorrow' can bring in more finances. Bands that have cult followings that have existed for years can bring in more finances. Bands that tour less frequently can bring in more finances.
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Unfortunately, the industry has changed, and "here today and gone tomorrow" is the way of most bands. The ones that stick around are mostly the ones that get big and play mainstage (the ones a lot of folks think the fest shouldn't be spending money to book).
I love the reunion shows and such, and yeah, I'd love to see them bring in more of them. But if the bands don't exist or don't play, what can Cornerstone really do about it? I guess they could back up the money truck and get them to come out of retirement, but it's debatable how wise an investment that is, even if you and I would really enjoy it.
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Originally posted by Audiori J
But the fest has to recognize their worth and how to focus on them and set them up for win/win situations. Everything I am saying could be applied to DA, but also to Keaggy, Fleming and John (as my brother said), the 77s, the Lost Dogs, the Choir, VOL (one of your favorites), Tonio K and Sixteen Tons of Monkeys, Bruce Cockburn, and so on. Bands similar to the ones that started the fest.
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This discussion always seems to come back around to "they need to be putting on Cornerstone from the 80s every year" as I read it. As much as I would enjoy something like that, I still don't think it's the answer to their problems.
I still want to know how to get around the fact that a lot of those bands aren't particularly active. I mean, I'd like to see Mark Heard and Larry Norman at the fest, too, but...
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Originally posted by Audiori J
Hense filling up the 100+ band roster with 'here today gone tomorrow' bands that while some might think they are great, the majority thinks are just filler. Filler that doesn't generate much income either, I might add.
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The fact that you discount the large and diverse list of bands that I posted that were generally good (subjective, yes, but I share a demographic with a lot of folks here), popular (well-attended shows), and in some cases pretty stable and long-term as "filler" hurts the credibility of everything else you're saying.
JRjr
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06-07-2012 07:39 |
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Audiori J
Administrator
Registration Date: 11-27-2004
Posts: 7,728
Location: "Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I AM stuck in the middle with you." - Stealers Wheel
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That is Leo Sorentino who played the part of Johnny Jacobs for "New Car."
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06-01-2012 13:12 |
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Ritchie_az
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Registration Date: 07-02-2008
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Location: Arizona
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06-01-2012 13:35 |
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