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JR88 
Disjasked Lerna
Registration Date: 05-01-2003
Posts: 4,896
Location: The Earth Household.
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audiori,
Here is my opinion. Take it or leave it. You run a buisness and obviously people are upset with the service provided, they have every right to be. They have paid for material they don't have, it's like going to best buy paying for a Pink Floyd cd then being told you can't have it for 3 weeks. I don't mind waiting I understand your delays and situations that you've come across but some people just won't accept that.
My advice is to work on the problems you have so you won't get back logged again. Stop defending yourselves to everyone who complains about not getting thier stuff and concentrate on getting it to them. People want to see you fixing your situation and improving your system, they don't want excuses, though I can sympathize with your reasons. Let them vent and let them complain.......but prove to them that you can improve with action not defense.
Just my thoughts
Please don't be offended.
__________________
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07-17-2003 15:55 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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That is exactly what we are doing. We are *always* fixing anything that creates additional delays... the international shipping people, the preorder problems, etc. There are some problems however that are completely out of our hands... theres nothing we can do to keep our father out of the hospital for example. The other major recent problem (the fan club situation) is being fixed, as we've said before. No one is more frustrated to get stuck with a pre-order mess or some other delay than we are... we're the ones that have to deal with the customers emails - even if we had nothing to do with the delay.
What gets frustrating is the desire some people have to "kick us while we're down". We are up to date on everything most of the year, but the second we fall behind for some reason (that is beyond our control) there are a handful of people out there that like to use that as an opportunity to attack. Or at least make silly little negative comments every few hours on a message board or email list. What they don't realize is that this can be VERY hurtful. Not to us, but to Terry or Mike or the Dogs. There are people out there - new fans or old fans that have recently discovered the websites - that do not know the history of these stores and read these little comments and take them seriously. They do not know that we are normally fast about filling orders or answering email, and they would never guess that based on these little comments. Comments like the one I am responding to make it sound like we rarely even ship orders at all.
I think the majority of our customers understand this situation. It is not a regular business and it most likely never will be. It is a very fragile ministry - partly trying to make money to keep going (and barely succeeding most of the time) and partly trying to give something extra back to you fans that have been supportive for so long.
As Terry said...
''If you were simply ''fans/consumers'' and I was just another greedy artist, then I wouldn't expect my appeal to you to fall on anything but deaf ears. I consider you to be much more than this, however, and I trust you see me as more than just a singer/songwriter. Our relationship goes far beyond these limited descriptions.''
If this were just a ''business/customer'' situation, theres a heck of a lot of stuff that we would not be doing at all.. like the free shirts, the fan clubs, free CDs, Hodgepodge, Prickly Heat, etc. And, interestingly enough, these are the very things that created our current delays.
We do not expect people to be happy when we are behind on things, but - Please folks - keep things in perspective. We are not behind 12 months of the year, and we do *normally* answer email very quickly.
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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07-17-2003 16:30 |
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baxter
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 09-19-2002
Posts: 15,686
Location: "Come, let us to our holy task again."
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Oh dear
For all of you newbies, i'm sure the biddy is fibbing. This is a must have!
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07-17-2003 17:38 |
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Theo
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 03-22-2002
Posts: 1,700
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Angelody, ody, yodel
Angelody, ody, yodel
Lady-o-do-angelody
Lady-o-do-deedle-dodey
Angelody, ody, ody
Poly whadda doodle oh day!!!!
thankgue. thankgue very mudge!
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07-17-2003 18:44 |
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baxter
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 09-19-2002
Posts: 15,686
Location: "Come, let us to our holy task again."
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07-17-2003 18:56 |
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ProdigalDog
Unsullied Affiche
Registration Date: 05-20-2003
Posts: 26
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audiori,
First of all, I wasn't making generalities. I was expressing my own experience/situation (something you don't seem to have much concern for).
Secondly, Driver8's opinion was dead on and you totally dismissed it with yet another defensive diatribe.
I am still waiting for things that were ordered in March, May and June. I'm sure you have your reasons for not shipping them but this has been a little frustrating for me and yesterday was the first time I said anything about it.
Your business model is obviouly flawed. As long as you continue to treat customers this way you will always have complaints. Trying to guilt the customer into not complaining because it may scare someone off is pretty weak in my opinion.
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07-17-2003 20:36 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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| quote: |
Originally posted by ProdigalDog
audiori,
First of all, I wasn't making generalities. I was expressing my own experience/situation (something you don't seem to have much concern for).
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I have a concern for real problems. We always bend over backwards to try to fix legitimate problems when they arise.. sometimes giving people free CDs or other items, offering discounts or free shirts or extra copies of whatever was ordered. I am also very sorry that people have had to wait an unusual amount of time for their orders lately. If you are waiting for a recent order then you have a legitmate complaint. We're always open to legitimate complaints.
However, this...
''placing an order at the webstore is like loaning money to your deadbeat brother-in-law. Who knows when, or if, you will ever get it back''
...is a generality. You're making it sound like we rarely ship anything to people that order. I apologize if I sounded harsh or misunderstood your intentions, but we've been through similar things with other posters lately. We work very hard to make sure we are up to date most of the year... it is extremely frustrating for us when people suggest that we are never up to date - especially in the middle of an already stressful situation where we're behind on things.
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Secondly, Driver8's opinion was dead on and you totally dismissed it with yet another defensive diatribe.
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We're always called "Defensive" any time we respond to any criticism or complaint - even if our response is correcting inaccurate statements. I guess we're just supposed to sit back and let people make any claim they want about us?
We cannot ignore these comments because as I said they can be very harmful. Especially when they are misleading.
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I am still waiting for things that were ordered in March, May and June. I'm sure you have your reasons for not shipping them but this has been a little frustrating for me and yesterday was the first time I said anything about it.
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You should not be waiting for anything from March. If you haven't emailed us about that, please do. We will look into it and it will be corrected. We are still behind on email - but we will see it and make sure it is taken care of.
I don't doubt that things have been frustrating lately for our customers and that is why we are making changes to make sure this never happens again. My comments following Driver8 were not necessarily directed specifically at you but at a handful of others on this board as well. We are having a problem right now and it drives me crazy for people to suggest that it is "normal", as several on the internet have done in recent weeks.
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Your business model is obviouly flawed.
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Yes, you could say that - especially if the object of a business is to make someone a lot of money. This is not the kind of "business" that is designed to make anyone rich. As I pointed out in the other message, if we were a ''regular business'' - we wouldn't be offering a lot of the stuff we offer. But we think of our customers as more than just customers.. you guys are supporters of Terry's ministry. You folks are the very reason that he continues to do what he does. That is why we offer extra items, free shirts, free CDs, discounts and the fan clubs. Its not because it makes us rich or because we have the extra time to do it, its to give something back to the supporters.
It is also this stuff that has caused a delay right now.
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As long as you continue to treat customers this way you will always have complaints. Trying to guilt the customer into not complaining because it may scare someone off is pretty weak in my opinion.
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If you read what I said, I am not trying to guilt anyone into not complaining. I understand 100% why people are upset when we are behind. What I get tired of is the suggestion that we are ''always behind'' or we ''never answer email''. You may not have meant to suggest this, but it sure sounded like it with the above comment. Legitimate problems and complaints are always welcome, but telling people that we are a deadbeat uncle that never gives you anything for your money is anything but ''legitimate''.
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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07-17-2003 21:08 |
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Theo
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 03-22-2002
Posts: 1,700
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Here's a beautiful little thread about a wonderful project that represents a HUGE chunk of my family's heart and life--let alone the last two years of effort on the part of JT, Terry, the Audiori and many others.
I wanna puke that y'all are cornering the Audiori on this subject on this thread. I've watched and wondered. Now I'm Mountain Dewed. I've had the mind to move my contraversial stuff to the argument dump. I think y'all ought to back off the Townsends ANYway--but as for this thread...
CRAP!!! (and I'm putting that lightly) Could you please back off?!? Take it to the bloody argument dump! Or just take it! I had higher hopes for the celebration of this project that a petty argument with beloved people who pour their lives out for more than a PETTY argument.
Goodnight.
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07-17-2003 22:35 |
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brd2yrmother
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-21-2003
Posts: 526
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I must say that I've only ever had a problem once (and it was a manufacturers defect) and the problem was taken care of within a week. Excellent service. I do understand the problems of public perception when it is the distributor or manufacturer causing the problem. i was in retail....the consumer never understands. They always blame the store. Sorry guys. I wish there was something I could do or something that would make customers treat you with the respect they expect from you. But it never happens. Just stick with it and don't let the few ruin it for the many of us who are quite content.
greg
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07-17-2003 22:41 |
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brd2yrmother
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-21-2003
Posts: 526
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and I love the CAACONAA project. Beautifully done, Theo. Thanks for making such a wonderful thing.
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07-17-2003 22:46 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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The project did turn out wonderful, Theo. We were happy to be a part of it.
Maybe we can rename this thread and start a new one about the Come as a Child project...
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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07-17-2003 23:05 |
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Theo
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 03-22-2002
Posts: 1,700
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Sorry for exploding.
Thank you though. Perhaps some threads ought to be sacred. I'm no one to step on a debate that is free to be had. I just couldn't handle watching it on this thread any longer. Some things ought to be sacred.
Sorry.
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07-17-2003 23:52 |
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Jevon the Tall
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 943
Location: "You're not from around here are you?" said the stranger to the little man in the wool sweater who looked vaguely like a sheep. Maybe it was the long boots but he was kind of cute. "What's your name?" he asked "My friends call me Theo." he replied
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No, you were in the clear on this one Theo. However, you know as well as the next guy the word association nature of this board, and for whatever reason this one turned out worse than my 4 year olds experiment with grapefruit juice and milk on cereal.
The whole project was executed in a manner makes me proud to know you Theo.
To the boys with the magic keys, exercise your big brother powers and cull this thread a bit where needed. It's your site, and you can do the right thing.
If anyone want to french and moan about censorship, drop me a line and I'll give a grey poop'on for ya.
Whoops, you can edit that out can't you?
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07-18-2003 00:22 |
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wes berlin
Official Impasto
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 3,397
Location: "but today i feel that too much of the church is merely a thermometer, which measures rather than molds popular opinion" mlk 1965
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what the hell is going on here!?!
i mean, theo goes thru a hell i can't even imagine. follows through (with a fathers love) with a request from his son, "don't let them forget", and he goes into debt to do it. terry, the townsends as well as everyone involved in the project, do their thing to help the cause......and some of you use this thread to french and moan!
i can understand some of your frustrations but please....not here! and for the millionth time, let us remember that the townsends do all the stuff they do out of love and dedication to terry and the rest of the band(s).
if you've got a gripe......deal with it in an appropriate area....(and count to ten before you do) and not here so we can celebrate andy and the "caaconaa" project.
-john
"life is short. live well. love well"
__________________
"Exorcising Ghosts"
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07-18-2003 02:44 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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Do you have any idea how the sales have been so far theo???
__________________
http://www.google.com
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07-18-2003 05:14 |
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zippetydoodaddy
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 01-29-2003
Posts: 610
Location: Lust is the craving for salt of a man who is dying of thirst. - F.B.
Thread Starter 
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| quote: |
Originally posted by zippetydoodaddy
How great is it?
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I didn't start this thread as "Complaining".
Forgive them Theo and Audiori, they know not what they do.
__________________
Welcome Happy Campers to Camp CAACONAA! Turning the hearts of fathers back to their children.
August 2005
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07-20-2003 12:23 |
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JR88
Disjasked Lerna
Registration Date: 05-01-2003
Posts: 4,896
Location: The Earth Household.
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| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
That is exactly what we are doing. We are *always* fixing anything that creates additional delays... the international shipping people, the preorder problems, etc. There are some problems however that are completely out of our hands... theres nothing we can do to keep our father out of the hospital for example. The other major recent problem (the fan club situation) is being fixed, as we've said before. No one is more frustrated to get stuck with a pre-order mess or some other delay than we are... we're the ones that have to deal with the customers emails - even if we had nothing to do with the delay.
What gets frustrating is the desire some people have to "kick us while we're down". We are up to date on everything most of the year, but the second we fall behind for some reason (that is beyond our control) there are a handful of people out there that like to use that as an opportunity to attack. Or at least make silly little negative comments every few hours on a message board or email list. What they don't realize is that this can be VERY hurtful. Not to us, but to Terry or Mike or the Dogs. There are people out there - new fans or old fans that have recently discovered the websites - that do not know the history of these stores and read these little comments and take them seriously. They do not know that we are normally fast about filling orders or answering email, and they would never guess that based on these little comments. Comments like the one I am responding to make it sound like we rarely even ship orders at all.
I think the majority of our customers understand this situation. It is not a regular business and it most likely never will be. It is a very fragile ministry - partly trying to make money to keep going (and barely succeeding most of the time) and partly trying to give something extra back to you fans that have been supportive for so long.
As Terry said...
''If you were simply ''fans/consumers'' and I was just another greedy artist, then I wouldn't expect my appeal to you to fall on anything but deaf ears. I consider you to be much more than this, however, and I trust you see me as more than just a singer/songwriter. Our relationship goes far beyond these limited descriptions.''
If this were just a ''business/customer'' situation, theres a heck of a lot of stuff that we would not be doing at all.. like the free shirts, the fan clubs, free CDs, Hodgepodge, Prickly Heat, etc. And, interestingly enough, these are the very things that created our current delays.
We do not expect people to be happy when we are behind on things, but - Please folks - keep things in perspective. We are not behind 12 months of the year, and we do *normally* answer email very quickly.
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audiori,
you make good points......I'll pray for you guys and hope that others would understand the situations that arise in everyday life. Keep giving us the music we love that's all I ask.
__________________
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07-25-2003 12:25 |
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zippetydoodaddy
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 01-29-2003
Posts: 610
Location: Lust is the craving for salt of a man who is dying of thirst. - F.B.
Thread Starter
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Nice to see you back.
__________________
Welcome Happy Campers to Camp CAACONAA! Turning the hearts of fathers back to their children.
August 2005
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07-25-2003 13:43 |
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JR88
Disjasked Lerna
Registration Date: 05-01-2003
Posts: 4,896
Location: The Earth Household.
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| quote: |
Originally posted by zippetydoodaddy
Nice to see you back.
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Thanks Zipp! 
It's good to be back
I missed all ya all
__________________
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07-25-2003 15:21 |
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